August 18, 2007
Sundowners, Santa Barbara's Santa Ana's
One class from my fire academy days that stuck in my head through the years was unique California wind phenomena that included discussion of So Cal's. Santa Ana's, Chinook or East winds in the N/E part of the state and Sundowners in Santa Barbara.
The instructors showed the class a video of dozer operators being overrun when a sundowner developed without warning. I don't recall the fire name or the extent of injuries I only remember how fast the crews were overrun.
Not much has been made of the the potential of such an event (publicly) from the Zaca Fire base but surely they are aware of the potential and keeping a keen eye.
I found a site that explains the sundowner phenomenon and it's a fascinating read.
The paper points to a sundowner fire that occurred in October 1971 below Romero Saddle that burned into and through Romero Canyon -- just SE of where the Zaca is headed.
According to the paper the Romero Saddle is one of three wind gaps in the Sana Ynez Range that invite the downhill wind.
With the area being squeezed by low pressure forming North and SE, (note image from an earlier post today) sundowners and the potential for deadly wind intensifies.
Extended area forecast discussion found here.
The instructors showed the class a video of dozer operators being overrun when a sundowner developed without warning. I don't recall the fire name or the extent of injuries I only remember how fast the crews were overrun.
Not much has been made of the the potential of such an event (publicly) from the Zaca Fire base but surely they are aware of the potential and keeping a keen eye.
I found a site that explains the sundowner phenomenon and it's a fascinating read.
The paper points to a sundowner fire that occurred in October 1971 below Romero Saddle that burned into and through Romero Canyon -- just SE of where the Zaca is headed.
According to the paper the Romero Saddle is one of three wind gaps in the Sana Ynez Range that invite the downhill wind.
With the area being squeezed by low pressure forming North and SE, (note image from an earlier post today) sundowners and the potential for deadly wind intensifies.
Extended area forecast discussion found here.
Labels: 2007 fire season, Sundowners, Zaca Fire
Comments:
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Hey, Mike! Love your blog! Thanks for stopping by skippy, too.
You had mentioned that CAL was taken off the fire and the FEDS stepped in. Why was that? On whose orders?
The sundowner winds are always potentially dangerous throughout Santa Barbara. However, they are a gentler form of the Santa Ana's that I experienced down in La Crescenta...now THAT area along the 210 and 2 freeways is a tinderbox waiting to happen as they are a virtual windtunnel even without the Santa Ana's (Devil Winds)
Thanks for the blog. Informative and helpful in this time of this monster ZACA. :-)
You had mentioned that CAL was taken off the fire and the FEDS stepped in. Why was that? On whose orders?
The sundowner winds are always potentially dangerous throughout Santa Barbara. However, they are a gentler form of the Santa Ana's that I experienced down in La Crescenta...now THAT area along the 210 and 2 freeways is a tinderbox waiting to happen as they are a virtual windtunnel even without the Santa Ana's (Devil Winds)
Thanks for the blog. Informative and helpful in this time of this monster ZACA. :-)
Hi Jill,
Thanks for the comment.
Generally when a fire that begins on state response land enters federal property the state gives way to the Forest Service.
The two agencies fight fire differently. Feds tend to manage fire and CDF/Cal Fire stomps them out.
Not to say the Feds aren't great at what they do, it's a different culture.
Once any fire touches a wilderness designated area suppression efforts slow significantly due to restrictions on use of mechanical equipment.
Two examples; Plaskett II Fire in Big Sir where helicopters had to go out to sea to dip buckets because the biologists were worried the activity would frighten sea otters that firage closer to shore.
Also on that fire Fed biologists told state dozer operators not to scrape a line because it would disturb a butterfly colony. The area burned anyway and firefighters were placed in danger.
This went against the judgment and training of the state fire crews, this cross culture nonsense could have cost someone their life.
Marble Cone was stopped dead at 200 acres if it did not enter the wilderness. I had a cousin on that fire and his crew was told to put their chain saws away. They had a handle on it until the order.
200,000 odd acres later.....
I won't express my personal opinion on this, you can probably figure it out if you read my posts labeled Zaca Fire. In short, I come from the state side and was trained to put fire out.
You get the picture.
Mike
Thanks for the comment.
Generally when a fire that begins on state response land enters federal property the state gives way to the Forest Service.
The two agencies fight fire differently. Feds tend to manage fire and CDF/Cal Fire stomps them out.
Not to say the Feds aren't great at what they do, it's a different culture.
Once any fire touches a wilderness designated area suppression efforts slow significantly due to restrictions on use of mechanical equipment.
Two examples; Plaskett II Fire in Big Sir where helicopters had to go out to sea to dip buckets because the biologists were worried the activity would frighten sea otters that firage closer to shore.
Also on that fire Fed biologists told state dozer operators not to scrape a line because it would disturb a butterfly colony. The area burned anyway and firefighters were placed in danger.
This went against the judgment and training of the state fire crews, this cross culture nonsense could have cost someone their life.
Marble Cone was stopped dead at 200 acres if it did not enter the wilderness. I had a cousin on that fire and his crew was told to put their chain saws away. They had a handle on it until the order.
200,000 odd acres later.....
I won't express my personal opinion on this, you can probably figure it out if you read my posts labeled Zaca Fire. In short, I come from the state side and was trained to put fire out.
You get the picture.
Mike
Well...when it comes to fires, I think sealife can be scared for awhile (heck, the humans are scared) and butterflies can flutter somewhere else as they probably have done in wildfire situations for hundreds of years.
If you don't have to endanger a Firefighters life any further, then I say DON'T.
I prefer the stomping out method, myself, too.
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If you don't have to endanger a Firefighters life any further, then I say DON'T.
I prefer the stomping out method, myself, too.
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